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Best!

Brett

Sunday, November 14, 2010

This Sunday, the original sinners!



I don't want to really get into the 'gays' are evil dialogue again. But I saw this and had to post it:)

Anyways, on to the topic at hand, Original Sin! Basically because Adam and that evil, evil temptress Eve ate a fruit that God said they couldn't (for someone who 'created' humans he appears to not know them very well.) For this egregious act God tosses them out of the Garden of Eden and curses them to grow old and die. Ok, a bit over the top (well WAY over the top.) But why did god also punish ALL the other animals? Sounds kind of mean and over reactive, not something an omnipotent being would do, but what a pissed of parent would (at least for a bit, they would even eventually relent. You know, since they have compassion for their children.)

So now EVERYONE/THING  on the planet is cursed to die, T. rex's are now free to eat everyone (instead of the coconuts that the great Ken Ham tells us;)) But it's worse than that. All of Adam and Eve's descendants are now also cursed… WTF? We're being blamed for something we had no control of or knowledge of? How is this fair and just? All of this because a fruit might give the human knowledge? (I would say this is NOT the case for most humans;)) Come on! Seems like god wants people to be stupid and simply obey (I will not make the joke, I will not make the joke, I WILL NOT MAKE THE JOKE!) I have a hard time believing this guy is all powerful when he keeps doing stupid things like this. But I guess I got more of the original sin taint than others;)

Best,

Brett

22 comments:

M.O.R said...

Reminds me of a Frankie Boyle joke..."I'm planning to make homsexuality illegal...So I can feel dirty when I do it."

But really, thanks for posting this. This is awesome satire. The closing line nailed it. Cool artwork and comedy, you're the artist that keeps on giving, arent'ya? :)

I wonder if it is actually possible to change one's sexuality, if so desired. Say to go from homosexuality to heterosexuality,or heterosexuality to homosexuality? Now hear me out, I am not saying anything is wrong, but looking at the power of the mind, where people can stop their heart, or believe they suffer from lycanthropy, or even create stigmata due to power of belief in their minds, I honestly wonder if such psychological manipulation can actually be fulfilled.

Brett said...

Hi M.O.R.

I don't want to seem like comics is my life, I have other interests and while I appreciate the compliments on the art, Id rather just talk about stuff I find interesting:) Sort of breaks the wall down from pro to bro;)

On to your query... I guess the best answer would be 'kinda' the res tof my comment is more me thinking. I know you can switch it up a bit (prisons and the like give us some insight.) I guess it would be easier for some than others, bi-sexual's being able to flop back and forth at will. While others with a more stringent religious upbringing would have a harder time, no pun intended. I do know that some people who want to 'go gay' can't even if they want to, nothing happens. The mind is indeed powerful but there are certain things it can't do, it cant stop puberty, stop your hair form growing ect.

When I was in college it was taught that everyone is born bi and certain events and experiences shape your sexuality. This does have SOME merit especially when it comes to child molesters (who were usually abused themselves as children and seem to get triggered to find children desirable.) As Jess says sexuality is fluid and desires change over time. You liked girls (or guys doesn't matter for this) your own age as a child? You were attracted to other 14 year olds when you were 14 right? Are you now? Most likely not, so it's always a changin' but to 'switch sides' mite possible for some and not others. But if you're happy, why bother?

Interesting idea though, always good to get the mind thinking:)

Best,

Brett

steve said...

I think the big problem most people have with the concept of sin (me as well for the first twenty years of my life) was understanding the idea of perfection. God created the world perfect, when sin entered it was no longer perfect. It wasn’t like it was almost perfect, mostly perfect, or good enough; perfection was broken. It is like a glass window which is only a little shattered, putting only a little poison in the cookie dough, it is only a little brain cancer, etc. Perfection is perfection, once you mess with it, it is no longer perfection. Brett’s confusion is to look at God and judge him from a human perspective and say, “As a sinful man, in a sinful world, with perfection not my standard, I think God over reacted.” Rather than judging oneself by God’s standard, Brett is judging God by his own fallen human standard. Most of us do this. This is why when I was sleeping around and getting drunk on the weekends I didn’t understand why God would be upset. By my standard (going to church, saying I was a Christian, being "good",etc) I was doing pretty well.

This gay video is kind of funny. Shows the old double standard of if a real Christian tried to say there were some general gay stereotypes (like say an effeminate male or butch female) he would get attacked for portraying them in a stereotypical fashion. Of course if you are mocking Christians it is all good. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

Brett said...

Steve,

I'll take my 'fallen' human standards over gods any day of the week! You don't seem killing first borns or destroying entire cities, or destroying a giant building may 'children' made just to be with me. You're assuming that the world was perfect. Your god has several character flaws (Moses actually changes his mind at one point!) and has even made mistakes (the flood, why else would he feel guilty about killing everything and why kill all the innocent animals as well? he's god he can just put them somewhere else for the time being and bring them back later,) how can it be perfect if he's not? You want him to be perfect so you believe he is. And when he does something not perfect you say the catch all "God works in mysterious ways" oooohhh... spoooky! He has far to many human qualities to not be a human creation.

You do have a point that people are overly sensetive about stereotypes. they exist for a reason, there is some truth to them. The problem with a Christian or Muslim group using the stereotypes is because they use them to hurt, not to have fun with. Sometimes the two can be the same thing, sometimes not it sort of depends on the situation. In this clip they are mocking the evengelicals, because the majority of the people watching this are Christians.

And you are SOOOO WRONG! It's nudge, nudge, wink wink!.... nudge, nudge, wink wink;)

Best,

Brett

steve said...

You bring up good points. Remember none of your objections would be problems if man had not sinned first, so you aren't really saying God is imperfect, you are saying you don't like how he has reacted to an imperfect creation. That is a valid objection, but ultimately without a solid foundation. Also God is personal, he is not the force, he has character, and a personality. Stating he acts like a person is probably because he has some similar traits. What you really should be looking at is how people are portrayed in the Bible. It is totally unflattering how the Bible authors wrote about themselves. Fibbers would not paint themselves as the fools and immoral lot that the Bible authors do.

by the way, have you watched Scott Pilgrim yet? I'm curious what you thought.

Steve

Natalie Hagemo said...

That was hysterical!

Brett said...

Steve,

If man had never sinned then it wouldn't be man, just some toy or pet. The whole nakedness thing always bothers me. Are you afraid to be naked in front of your partner? Then what the hell was Adam and Eve so afraid of. Strange, not normal.

I'm saying how can god get so upset when he messed up in the first place. Thus making him imperfect;) He has so many human traits because he was made by humans. Just like the Greeks and Norse gods. You don't see how the bible authors could talk about themselves as sinners? Have you NEVER watched a sermon on TV? They LOVE to talk about how bad humans are and how great god is. Are you unable to put yourself in another shoes? All you have to do is pretend your a god and that everything anyone else does that you don't like is a sin. Very simple actually.

I have not seen Scott Pilgrim yet. Maybe tomorrow if I have time:)

Best,

Brett

steve said...

Hmmm...so many misconceptions where to start?

I don't watch sermons on TV; generally I don't find a lot of quality or substance there. Most decent relevant preachers are podcasting their sermons rather than trying to float enormous television budgets. Your mileage may vary, who are you finding of value on the boob tube?

I sometimes forget that you haven't studied the Bible much so it may be hard for you to grasp what I'm getting at. The Bible writers paint THEMSELVES in a very unflattering light. Everyone loves to point out the wrongdoings of others. If you read most religious writings you get a fictional account of religious figures who are idealized Supermen. They puff themselves up. The Bible is full of stories about the authors being stupid and God loving them anyways. Kind of the opposite of what you implied.

Brett said...

Steve,

I appears you don't know much about the religions of others. They ALL do that. Humans bad! So they need to be good to get you're reward in the afterlife. There is nothing new in Christianity, in fact most of it is taken from other religions.

Wow, I guess the stories were god kills everyone except a family and a few animals doesn't fit then? And were he destroys cities? And were he kills Onan for literally fucking around? Damning everyone to an ETERNITY in hell for having a good time or NOT worshiping him? Yeah I can see the love;)

Best,

Brett

steve said...

Uhh you are kind of getting even further off base.

I can't legitimately fix every historical inaccuracy you believe about the Bible in this space, but I think the one big one is that Christianity preaches you have to be good to get your reward in the afterlife. That would be pretty much the opposite of Christianity.

Steve

Brett said...

Hey, I brought it back to Onan;)

But other religions ALSO have a heaven and hell, they just use different names. It's the same idea with modifications. Greeks, Romans, Egytians, Norse, ect. You do what your god wants and you are rewarded, you don't, you're sent to hell/hades ect. How is that different? Oh the Hebrew groups were just more self deprecating.

You seem to gloss over all the bad stuff god does but expound on the good.

Best,

Brett

steve said...

Naw, I don't gloss over the "bad" I use my big ol brain to read the facts and why what often seems bad to us actually in the long run is good.

Imagine if I told you I go around cutting chunks out of people and it causes them pain. I would sound like a horrible person, but what if I then revealed I was an Oncologist. The perspective would change a bit.

Maybe it is so obvious that I never even thought to ask. Do you know what Christians actually believe and why it is radically different from all other religions? Can you in a few sentences tell me the gospel message?

(totally off topic but my word verification for this post is "adike", for a post with a gay topic that is pretty hysterical to me. Maybe blogger has a sense of humor)

Steve

Brett said...

Well I wish you'd use more of it Steve, because you seem to have a hard time accepting things with actual evidence but keep believing things that you want to be true, but have no evidence. Not the same thing.

That's almost a good analogy, of course if I changed it to reflect what your god actually does:

"I go around killin' people and it causes them pain and then I condemn the ones that didn't do what I said to an ETERNITY of torcher. I would sound like a horrible person, but what if I then revealed I was an Oncologist. The perspective would change a bit"

How is that helping them or loving them? Maybe in some crazy mentally unstable way, but not something any normal being would do. His occupation has nothing to do with it!

I'll bite (but I know you'll say that it's wrong because of course YOUR way is the only right way. I'd like to know how YOU actually know that, seeing as how there are like 35,000 Christians sects? Why is yours true but all the others wrong?)

Here goes:

Worship me or spend eternity in Hell... oh and I really do love you.
(huh, sound like an abusive spouse to me.)

Well that just shows me how you feel about gay people. Sad, but not unexpected.

Best,

Brett

steve said...

hmmm...
Dyke is slang terminology referring to a lesbian or lesbianism regardless of the person's actual sexual identity. Originally, it was a derogatory label for a masculine or butch woman, and this usage still exists. However, it has also been reappropriated as a positive term implying assertiveness and toughness, or simply as a neutral synonym for lesbian, regardless of individual gender expression.

Not really sure why it is sad to you. I'll tell my lesbian friends who refer to themselves as dykes that it is sad. I guess maybe I didn't realize they were being offensive about themselves. How should I correct them so they can be more pc?

steve said...

Okay, God is the originator of life, He designed it and set the rules. The more of God you get, the closer to the life source you are. He is also holy. This doesn’t mean he is really really really really good by human standards. It means nothing but good all the time, no evil. Never did anything bad, never will. Moral perfection.

People, not so much on the whole moral perfection thing, pretty much we foul up everything we come in contact with. God gives us free will and we continuously fail to do what is right with it. Because we are corrupt we do not measure up to perfection.

So we have a perfect God and people who have willingly chosen to go against God. We choose to be God’s enemies. We are the bad guys for preferring our way to God’s way.

Does this make him a tyrant? Only if you look at those trapped in addiction and think those people have it altogether and really understand freedom. If you see death, sickness, and suffering as freedom I guess it is going to be hard to convince you that those are negatives. The effects of sin have marred a perfect world and now we have to deal with painful consequences. Move away from God, you move away from life.

Still you have freedom. If you so hate God and despise the idea of worshipping Him for eternity you do have the option of opting out of being in His presence. You can choose to spend eternity apart from Him. Hell is a great testimony to God’s willingness to not force anyone to worship Him eternally.

CS Lewis put it wonderfully when he said:
“There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, ‘Thy will be done,’ and those to whom God says, in the end, ‘Thy will be done.’ All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell.” (The Great Divorce, pp. 72-72

God is the source of life, if you reject the very source of life and goodness how can you really be ticked off that you are left with the option of the absence of God, goodness, and life; in other words hell.

Those who get upset at this usually are saying they want paradise and heaven, but on their own terms.

They say, “I want a heaven without God’s requirements.”

I say, “Well whose requirements do you prefer?”

They say, “My requirements, my standards, my rules. I think people who are nice and good should go. People like me and my friends.”

I say, “So you want to be God?” regardless of what they want I then point out they have neither the ability nor authority to fulfill that desire. So what they want is in the end pretty inconsequential.

Brett said...

Steve,

If it's been reappropriated, then it's like the 'N' word. They can use it you shouldn't. It's still offensive, especially to someone who doesn't like gay people. It's sad that you thought that was so funny but thought the video was only slightly funny.

You have so bought into the religion lies it's almost insane. How is spending an eternity in hell for not worshiping him a great testimony to his love? WHAT ARE YOU ON! If you're saying that hell is simply being without god then I'm down with that. But then all that lake of fire stuff is shit then and so why do you Christians still preach it?

You still have offered no EVIDENCE for this magic mans existence. Simply stating it's true does not make it so. How can he be the source of all life when you can't even prove he exists? And you talk about being science minded. Something isn't true just because you want it to be.

There is no such thing as heaven. Your analogy has no meaning in that context. Are you assuming that I think I'll live on after I die? I don't think about heaven or what I would want it to be because it doesn't exist. When I die all me thought patterns will cease to be, I will be gone, there is no soul to 'carry' on.

Best,

Brett

steve said...

Brett, your conclusion then is you have faith that when you die you will cease to exist and not go to hell. You have a belief that material matter is all that exists.


That is rational, after all if the supernatural exists we have no way of adequately understanding or discovering it on our own.

The burden of proof falls on those who believe otherwise.

The supernatural would have to reveal itself to us.

My belief is based on studying the historical evidence that the supernatural has made an effort to reveal itself.

Billions have come to the same conclusion after honestly and sincerely researching it. You have never done so (I know, I know-you were raised Catholic; not at all the same thing), thus it would be impossible for you to reach a conclusion otherwise than you have.

I don't think you are stupid. As you pointed out your real problem is you do not wish to worship God. You wish to live life as you see fit on your terms without having to obey God or his rules. I understand that, I lived like that for about twenty years.

Steve

Brett said...

Oh no you dinn't! LOL! The argument form numbers! So if a billion people say it's OK to walk off a cliff you will?!

Seriously, I find it INCREDIBLY hard to believe that ALL those people actually studied their religion and weren't you know just raise in it and never left.

But see you are presupposing things WITHOUT any evidence to back it up. You only accept the science that agrees with your preconceptions. I do not. They are just stories. There is no difference between your myth and anyone else's. Even the historical evidence doesn't give evidence of the supernatural, just that people believed in it. Nothing more.

And no I didn't bother to study your religion that seriously. It's really not that interesting to me. Boring and heavy handed without all the subtlety of the Greeks or Egyptians.

I did have a question. If Baptism washes away original sin then why are we still so imperfect?

Best,

Brett

steve said...

Brett is that an honest question?
Baptism does not wash away original sin. I don't think I've ever claimed that. Baptism is a believer's public confession of their faith. They are saying that they freely choose to be identified with Christ and that the ritual of Baptism is a visible representation of the work God has already done on the inside. Baptism represents the old man dying going under the water, and the new man rising out of the water. The ritual itself is powerless, the work God does is the miracle power. Perhaps that answers your question? of course the next logical question is "why then do Christians still sin?" Don't want to get ahead of you.

Steve

Brett said...

Hi Steve,

Yes. Some sects, like the Catholics believe that. And since there are more of them than of you, by you're own argument they are right;)

If you guys can't even get you're stories straight how can I trust anything you say.

You tell me I've never studied the bible but it appears you mean YOUR version of it.

How can your be so right that your version is the correct one? You offer no proof, but you keep saying it.

Christians still sin because they are human and even the belief in a myth can't change that.

Best,

Brett

steve said...

Well you walked away from Catholicism because you said it was wrong. So YOU are saying their interpretation is categorically wrong. I am saying they are wrong in some specific areas. No reason to create disagreement where there is none. Catholics get some stuff wrong.

Most Catholics I know do not study the Bible, they are culturally Catholic only. In other words they go to mass and belong to a church as more of a cultural tradition. They were raised in it. They did not study the Bible and then choose Catholicism.

So it isn't really two different interpretations of the Bible. It is more of traditions of the Catholic church vs. the Bible. They can't support this view from the Bible, so that is kind of why I can have a different view.

You are right, you can't trust anything I say (well beyond you know me pretty well after 10 years of arguing. I think you know we disagree but I don't just make stuff up or believe whatever is force fed me.)

You have to investigate for yourself if you want to see what is true. You don't really seem to be interested in doing that so you will always be arguing from an uninformed position.

Also I was not saying I was correct because billions have also believed. Whoever has more doesn't win. It is not a popularity contest. I'm saying billions of skeptics just like you say it ain't true, I hate God, it is all a load of crap, etc. And then they honestly research it and say I was wrong, I was so wrong, I was utterly completely and devastatingly wrong. I was over here (unbelief) and now that I have actually put the effort into trying to find out the truth I am now on the other side of the line. There is something there. There has got to be a reason billions have looked for God and found Him. The popular counter argument is they are all stupid, or manipulated, or crazy-but it doesn't hold up to even a cursory examination.

Brett said...

Well that sort of kinda makes sense. But I think you're both wrong. Who's to say who is wronger? Using your own criteria, you are (you used the argument from numbers and then you tell me it's wrong when it's used against you? Nice trick!) Just because you believe you are right about a myth doesn't make it so without any actual evidence to back it up.

Most CHRISTIANS I know don't study the Bible OR they study it based on others views (Bible Study classes.) They never actually make up their minds and learn for themselves, they are fed information. You think the bible supports you. While they think the bible supports them. Whose right? Well of COURSE you are!;)

While I do know you, I do know that when it comes to your religion all the reason you posses flies out the window. That's why it so infuriating to listen to some of what you say, I know you're not that gullible about other things, why this? I know the answer as well and I've stopped expecting much in the way of reason when it comes to these discussions, but I do hope others read this and see how you dodge the questions, never provide actual evidence and tip toe around stuff, all while proclaiming that YOU know the truth, but have nothing to back it up, like the King with no clothes, you say you are right but have nothing to show for it. The arguments you use against science are old and laughable, you claim that science supports the bible but it doesn't, not even the historians can support it.

Why should I bother to study a mythology that has been proven false if I don't find it that interesting? And just because what I learn doesn't match up with yours doesn't mean it's wrong, just means that I interpreted it differently. Since you have no evidence to back it up it's all up for grabs, meaning wise.

But Steve, you DIDN'T honestly research it (the other side, the dark side.) If you did, you would realize you NEVER didn't believe. You always did. God doesn't exist, so I can't hate him, since he's not real. I'm indifferent to 'him' at best. It's his crazy followers that cause the problems.

The reason you have 'found' him is because you are afraid. You want an afterlife and you want someone to watch over you. Your life has some sort of order and it scares you that the universe might not, so you cling to what can give you some sort of solace. Fear is a powerful tool. The Republicans use it ALL THE TIME. And fear, pretending to be be love, is even worse.

It does hold up Steve, you are just to close to see it. And all 3 apply, but I'd add ignorant as well.

Best,

Brett