Posting:

Due to the current troll infestation we will be requiring you to sign in to leave a comment. Also, please note that we will be very nice in the regular posts, but we will not be gentle in the Sunday Blaspheme posts. You will be expected to back up any ideas with facts.

I am always happy to answer any questions I can:)

New Rule! Staff reserves the right to cuss you out and post your correspondence if you send us annoying emails.

Best!

Brett

Tuesday, January 11, 2011

JLA 54 preview



Read the comments, very funny. And for the record I'm not anti god, I'm anti religion. And it amuses me to no end that the person claiming my rants are "insipid and childish" is active on the DC boards, where they've now spent 17 pages arguing about the Tasmanian Devils 'return'. LOL!

Best!

Brett

UPDATE!: Go here for the details. To Passage34, I don't post on the DC boards, so since I know you read the blog, I'll answer things here. Anti religion means anti ALL gods, by saying anti God that sort of specifies Christianity, I'm an equal opportunity blasphemer;) I poke fun at religion to demonstrate the silliness of the topic. Perhaps if you were on the other side you would see the importance of people speaking out. You might not like it or agree with me but speaking out about such things is deathly important to the future of our species.

I'm guessing I wasn't quite clear, about the DC boards comment. The Taz stuff was more a general poke at the fandom and spending 17 pages complaining about something that wasn't true. I wasn't singling you out specifically about that, sorry if that wasn't clear. I was trying to make a point about the childish comment and participating on comic book boards, sort of a pot kettle black thing. I'm not usually that subtle, but I am sarcastic so I'd rather have a bit of fun than get all pissy. All I can say is check out the issues and see if we change your mind, James has gone out of his way to make these fun and he's wrapping up some plot threads he dropped in past issues and the JSA. I am making a prediction that Andrew Dalhouse will be very sick of the color green at the end of this!

43 comments:

KaiserLeomon said...
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Fatboy73 said...

What in the Sam Hill do your personal beliefs or lack there of have to do your professional comic work?The fact that someone even brought it up is ridiculous.Would they have mentioned it if you had thanked your "lord and creator" for blessing you with your talent and then dedicated the book to him?
It's like your being ostracised for being an atheist,pretty soon you won't be able to get work,buy groceries,sell...or trade...unless you wear a mark signifying you as a born again died in the blood Christian...Wait haven't I heard this somewhere before? ;)

Brett said...

Kaiser,

I'd consider that a more healthy idea of religion than what most participate in:)

Fatboy,

That did cross my mind. By bringing it up now I have to question anything he/she says. The back handed compliments from that same individual are always a telling trait. I'd rather you hate the work strictly on the works merit, but that guy has been slinging insults at me since they announced me taking over. Those JLA fans are HARDCORE fanboys, if it's not the big seven it's bad.

BEst,

Brett

KaiserLeomon said...

Sorry...:(

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KaiserLeomon said...

Fatboy73 I apologize if I gave a wrong impression about my person, unhappy with that comment, and precipitate, which does not know why I put it though, since Brett did not say anything wrong, believe me I am not, and so I urge you not judge me wrong ... we all often say things we regret much later ... the important thing is to learn not to repeat again, the same error, sorry ...

Fatboy73 said...

KaiserLeomon:
I'm not sure why you apologizing to me,There was nothing in my comment that was aimed at you,you just happened to get your comment in before mine.And as for your comment,I seriously was thinking along the same lines as Brett.You seem to have a pretty healthy view on your faith and what it means to you and that's cool.I also do not judge people period.That can be left up to people who feel they are higher and mightier than me.I may disagree with things people say but it's never personal.Hope that clears things up a bit :D

KaiserLeomon said...

I know that Fatboy73 just that I felt really bad for saying anything. Believe me I hate to discuss and feel horrible when I discuss later. So I apologized to him because although like you said I seem to have a good view I did not feel right saying anything because it seemed I was raging with Brett which is something I do not have the right to make no matter the reasons . But thank you for understanding and explaining their point of view ... : D

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Jade Starrz said...

Wow... Just wow. I skimmed some of that and its sort of confusing that people can't separate your art from you from your blog... I don't know why the "anti-religion" thing matters at all. I talked to you about it and I think that it made me understand a little bit more of why someone else took the road they did. Maybe people are just afraid to ask questions or to look at things from a different side.

But to have someone go "His art suck and he's anti-God" Seems hard to take that person seriously. You drew the Anita Blake comics for a while and you drew crosses in there. Its not like you are putting your personal beliefs into the pages. I don't know, seems just really weak as an argument. Someone trying to get people to their view.... I do give kudos to the guy apologizing though, it was a stand up thing to do.

steve said...

Wait a minute, Brett is an atheist? That is it I’m done buying his work.

I kid, I kid because I love.

I doubt if there is anyone who has argued religion, God, faith, evolution, etc. as long and as hard as I have with Brett. Brett ain’t stupid and he has reasons for what he believes and doesn’t believe. When his logic is flawed I call him on it, when I’m out of line he gives me a good intellectual whack. The secret is to disagree with out being disagreeable and not being a jerk.

Personally I think it is silly to say you are a Christian and therefore you don’t think Brett should draw the JLA. If you have a story about a homosexual anthropomorphic Tasmanian devil I think Brett is probably the best artist for the gig. I think practicing homosexuality is wrong, but it isn’t going to change anyone’s minds by acting like a moral prude and condemning Brett. You know why Brett acts and talks like he does? It is because he doesn’t know God. How else would you expect a non-believer to act?

Remember Christ loves us and therefore we accept his moral laws-he doesn’t love us because we are better than anyone, and he doesn’t love us BECAUSE we keep his moral laws. Right actions follow a right relationship with God-we don’t get a right relationship with God by acting right.

And for the religious remember the topic of Religion is always treated as a negative in the New Testament (except for possibly James 1:27). Jesus was inviting to the irreligious and incredibly harsh to the religious. Religion tends to be people putting stock in their own efforts to please God; this is the number one obstacle to showing people true Christianity. When we act like we got an inroad to God because we are moral prudes we come off as pious pompous judgmental fools. Better to admit we are the most worthless recipients of God’s grace and we want others to experience the same freedom apart from acting like we own the moral high ground.

Steve

KaiserLeomon said...

But what exactly does the fact that someone "believe "or "not believe" there is a differential to make someone "better" or "worse " in the eyes of the world? Each of us received from the moment of birth until the last days of freedom of choice of free will. It is the largest and most "divine gift" of human freedom to choose whether to believe or do not want to believe but the fact that someone chooses to "not believe" does not make that person less worthy and honorable in the sight of God even those who chose to "believe. "

... well it is your right to criticize, in fact for humans to gather in masses, attend evangelical churches and praying to God, Jesus Christ, Allah, Mohammed, Abraham does not mean or imply that human beings will become more "human "stop the wars,that major catastrophes and natural disasters do not occur again, humans no longer die of hunger, misery and disease and that humans no longer kill themselves for reasons more fools just because we met in a temple, church , Islamic mosque or synagogue ...

But it would be sad if the world did not know what it means to believe, the world would be tragic if humans were so brutalized inside the point of believing in nothing else, ifthey feel more love, affection, respect, if not loved or more enough not to believe inthemselves and more to believe in "love. " "Love your neighbor as yourself",remember? As simple and stupid. Recently, humans have forgotten the meaning of it, but remember what it means to hate and kill and destroy and I have only to regret.

And no. I am not "Catholic " or "Christian" or "believer" or anything like that. I have only a spiritual side , not religious. But I have nothing against those who believe as I have nothing against those who do not believe ... Blessed are those who believe. Blessed are those who do not believe ... The most sacred human right is the freedom to choose whether to believe or not ... In short, "I can not even agree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it ..."

steve said...

Dude you lost me....what?

Fatboy73 said...

I can't speak for Brett but I'd be willing to bet that it would take a little more than "knowing god"to become a "believer".My view and I'm sure a lot of atheist as well is that even if God were to show up in my living room blazing in all of his glory I sure wouldn't fall on my knees and worship.The first thing I would do is ask what his problem is and then tell him he has a lot of explaining to do and it better be damn good.And if it's not just go away and leave me alone because I've been doing just fine without you.

steve said...

Fatboy let me get this right, your saying if God is real and he owns every atom of matter and every second of time is His gift to us, you believe you are okay without Him? So if you had no life, no body, no mind, no being, no air, and no time; you'd be cool with that? I don't know, but I personally would be a little bummed out. But hey, that's just me.

Steve

Derek Ruiz said...

God is an alien scientist from another planet that messed with our DNA...heh.

Passage34 said...

Well, it seems I've figured out how to get the google account working, so here goes.

Before I start, though, let me just say thanks to Brett for acknowledging my apology posted over on the DC boards. I didn't intend to let anything get this involved, but I took the cheap shots, so I guess one would call this natural consequences. I certainly don't want to drag this out for anybody uninterested, but if anybody wants to take the time, I'll answer a couple of the comments made since my initial post.

First up. Brett, I would never suggest anybody be ostracized for his beliefs, and I wasn't trying to get anyone to forgo supporting your work. If I came off that way, again, I apologize. I was simply saying that I realized I had let my disagreement with your views in one area and your means of communicating them affect my comments about your artwork. That was wrong.

The best analogy I can come up with is for you to imagine Ken Ham was also an actor. Were he in a movie that had nothing to do with his "creationist" work, to those uninvolved or uninterested it might be a fine performance. You, though, might be tempted to let your disagreement with him color your appraisal, potentially magnifying any perceived flaws. Now, it's quite likely you could keep the two perfectly separate, and if you couldn't, I'd imagine you'd just refrain from offering any critique, because you couldn't trust yourself to be fair. Either way, you would be the better man.

All I'm saying is that I caught myself not being the better man, and was trying to fess up to it with The Source post that followed your preview pages. However, it was a half-hearted admission. Shortly afterward, I realized an actual apology and explanation was in order.

As an aside, I'm not a particular supporter Ham's views, but that's for another discussion.

Next, I would not want to be so crass as to say, "Brett's art sucks, and (or worse, because) he's an atheist. His work doesn't suck. The guy has talent, skill, and from what I hear, a commendable work ethic. Aside from my theological knickers being in a knot, I think what prompted the sarcastic, backhanded nature of my compliments was the sophomoric tendency to rip on work you once liked but consider yourself to have outgrown. As I said, I was a big fan of his work at one time. Heck, I stood in line 17 years ago at the "ImageCon" in order to get him to sign my copy of Backlash. Even if I think I have some "refined" criticism to now offer, I buried it in internet-anonymity empowered jackassery.

Without making excuses, it's been a slow couple of weeks at work, and I should probably take a break from reading comic blogs and message boards. Too much can have a deleterious effect on clear thinking and good judgment. In short, I feel myself getting stupider with each post.

Lastly, Steve's comments about religion vs. the Gospel are right on. I wasn't trying to be higher and mightier than anyone, or trying to seize some moral high ground. I just got sloppy in my thinking, and lazy in my posting. Once again, sorry all.

Okay...hope everything's cool, thanks for reading.

Fatboy73 said...

Steve,
Basically yes.Like I said he would "have some splaining to do".For the way he allows himself to be portrayed,the state the world is in,the fact he's all powerful but chooses to do nothing,and so on and so forth.And before the "who can question god"thing even goes through your head...YES every sentient,lucid being in existence is accountable for their actions,especially the being supposedly responsible for all of existence.And if god chooses to be his ol usual vengeful self and blink me out of existence,then so be it. :)

Brett said...

I'm totally with Fatboy on this. Let me put it to you this way, if you're claiming God 'owns' everything. Your child is made with your DNA, do you own it? And if God is now lord and Master you can be his slave if you want but I prefer to be free. And of course you can no longer argue Free Will if God owns everything.

And you say my reasoning is fuzzy;) Logic and reason might seem fuzzy to you, but I'd rather use a flashlight in the dark than hope god 'shows me the way'.

Best,

Brett

KaiserLeomon said...

He was not talking about "believing in God " was talking to" believe. " Believe in yourself, believe or not we can do ourselves to make a difference in the world for both now and for tomorrow. Believing that there is something divine in every one of us that makes us unique and special in the eyes of the world. Believe what the humble human being can do to "divine" seems to me far more noble and worthy than any of the "miracles"described in the Bible, Toran, Koran or whatever. I talked to "believe" in us. ALL OF U.S.. Brett proves his art work with their effort, dedication and commitment who believes in what he can do good and beautiful for the world. It is this "belief " that I refer. Not in the "believe in the God of heaven far " but what of the divine that dwells in us all.

steve said...

God owns everything, so yeah everything. Me, my life, my time, my kids. So no, I don’t own my kids; everything I have I am a steward of; He owns it and I am to wisely manage and govern what is entrusted to me.

Brett you constantly confuse free will with freedom from consequences. You want a world where people are responsible for their actions if it benefits you or lines up with your will. Someone hurts you, steals from you, lies to you; you want them punished. Everytime a company screws you over on a contract you scream for justice, but everytime I point out God too has a moral code you get upset and say you want freedom from his laws. This is what the Bible means when it says all people do what is right within their own eyes. You reject God, his book, and his will; but even in your rejecting of Him you continue to live exactly how He describes you will. The Bible accurately describes all people and their motivations.

Fatboy, I commend you; most people are not as willing as you to be so transparent. Most try to hide or rationalize their actions. I don’t agree with you, but I can respect someone who is honest and forthcoming. You are basically saying you would call God on the carpet for not living up to your expectations and you would treat him harshly. You who admit you are imperfect and can not even live up to the moral code you believe others should live by feel you have the right to judge God’s actions. It is interesting God who has a right to call us on the carpet chooses to then treat us with love. Even though he can demand obedience and enforce His will by force he choose to woo us to Himself.

Passage 34, don’t sweat it. Posting while at work often leads to hurried or poorly structured posts. We all do it. I constantly struggle with being a religious prude or being one more loud obnoxious Christian who types more than he thinks, I fail at times but most folks around this blog are pretty forgiving. The internet has a way of making us all sound like trolls at time, something emoticons can’t even fix.

Brett said...

Steve,

See, this is the problem. I don't have any indication that your god even exists, so why should I bother with his laws at all? If he's false and doesn't exist I'm not going to waste my time appeasing him. We humans have made our own rules (even the rules you think come from god are from man, they wrote the bible and made up the religion.) SO I fail to see how you can't get this. I follow the laws of MY country, NOT your religion. I don't see why that's so hard to grasp. USA real, Christianity not real (or at least the myths of it) so I don't follow it's rules. Simple.

Actually I KNOW I don't live my life like he wants me to. I follow OUR laws so I don't go to jail. And I tired of this moral code from god crap. There were MANY civilizations before God showed up and they had laws as well. The Christians/Jews just co-opted them and slapped Yahweh on it.

Passage34

Welcome, I didn't see the post until just now!

I's never use Ken Ham, maybe Tom Cruise;) Kidding. But Yeah, I agree. I still see some of his movies, and even like them, I don't actually like dramas myself, but his Scifi stuff is fun.) Same goes for Travolta and I do actually like Kirsty Alley quite a bit. The majority of the US is some form of Christian so I'd be shit out of luck if I couldn't separate the two;) I even like Bill Maher, who I think is pretty smart on religion but an absolute disaster on Medicine and Animal rights.

Best!

Brett

steve said...

Ahh now you are confusing legality with free will. But I will try to untangle that knot as well; actually come to think of it you have just illustrated my point better than I originally did.

It has nothing to do with the validity of the USA legal system or Christian morals. Your argument against God is if he exists and has moral laws you do not have freedom of will because their are consequences for not following His will. You say this destroys the possibility of Free Will because if you disobey you go to hell (never mind this really isn't the message of the gospel.) Using your example of the laws of the USA you follow them because you understand the consequences for breaking them. Yet America is still the home of the free. As you point out for there to be real freedom there has to be real laws. So what you are saying is true and real for America is also how you should view God's laws-a moral code makes free will possible.

Fatboy73 said...

I've finally figured it out Steve.You have Stockholm Syndrome!
That can be the only explanation for your consistent excuses and ridiculous rational you give for the total sway and control your "God" has over you and your life.

The following are viewed as the conditions necessary for Stockholm syndrome to occur.

* Hostages who develop Stockholm syndrome often view the perpetrator as giving life by simply not taking it. In this sense, the captor becomes the person in control of the captive’s basic needs for survival and the victim’s life itself.

* The hostage endures isolation from other people and has only the captor’s perspective available. Perpetrators routinely keep information about the outside world’s response to their actions from captives to keep them totally dependent.

* The hostage taker threatens to kill the victim and gives the perception of having the capability to do so. The captive judges it safer to align with the perpetrator, endure the hardship of captivity, and comply with the captor than to resist and face murder.

* The captive sees the perpetrator as showing some degree of kindness. Kindness serves as the cornerstone of Stockholm syndrome; the condition will not develop unless the captor exhibits it in some form toward the hostage. However, captives often misinterpret a lack of abuse as kindness and may develop feelings of appreciation for this perceived benevolence. If the captor is purely evil and abusive, the hostage will respond with hatred. But, if perpetrators show some kindness, victims will submerge the anger they feel in response to the terror and concentrate on the captors’ “good side” to protect themselves.

Yep sounds eerily like Stockholm's to me.

Brett said...

Ah, no Steve,

If god owns everything, then he owns all of you, including you mind and soul because they are a part of you. Therefore you have nothing of your own, so no freewill. This is of course not really true. You can make choices that go against god's will so this would mean that he doesn't own everything. So your idea about the atoms would be false. Thus god doesn't 'own' the atoms. It's such a strange idea. I will admit I've never heard it before, must be that fancy ID science thinking (sorry I couldn't resist!)

I follow the laws of the US because I have evidence that they are real as are the consequences. The reason why the US is still free is BECAUSE of the separation of church and state. If this was a Christian nation it would not be free. It would be no better than the Taliban or a dictatorship.

You really need to understand that the presuppositions you have color everything. You cant understand other views because you can't conceive of a world were god might not exist, you can't put yourself in others shoes when it comes to religion. Our view is that there is nothing religion wise and that will only change if credible evidence is presented. This has not happened, so no matter how much you talk about God's laws, his message, that he loves me yadda yada yadda, you can't actually give me evidence to back up your statements. So I can't believe you.

Fatboy, I don't think it's quite the same but I wouldn't be surprised if there is a similar undescribed syndrome. Similar triggers perhaps. I do remembering hearing something about religion as a mental illness, but I can't remember were I hear/read that. remember, hearing voices is now mental illness:)

Best!

Brett

Fatboy73 said...

Oh your right of course Brett it's not exactly the same,I was just trying to point out the similarities in starting to Identify and eventually defend the person or Idea that is holding you captive.And since religion or belief in a god VERY much holds a person captive and abuses them,not physically but mentally and those who hold such beliefs will defend them,sometimes to the death.I was kind of jokingly saying Steve had Stockholm's,sorry if I wasn't clear :)

steve said...

Fatboy,
Hmmm….how deep do I want to go in this discussion? Look I don’t want to waste your time. I don’t know how far back into world history you’ve studied. Maybe in a sentence or two could you explain what you believe the individual’s relation is to their society. What does an individual owe society, what does society owe the individual? Is an individual apart of their society? Or maybe a better way to put it, is an individual tree more important than the forest?

Brett said...

Fatboy,

I got what you were saying I was trying to actually analysis it a bit;) IT is a very interesting idea. I'm wondering if there are a whole slew of similar syndromes.

Now I'm trying figure out were Steve is going with his analogy. The answer is; it depends. Since no circumstances are given.

Best,

Brett

steve said...

Here is a link to a lecture on the difference between religion, moralism, and Christianity. It is by Tim Keller talking to many cynical New Yorkers about how Freud, Marx, and Nietzsche have in many ways shaped the modern view of religion in a post modern world. It speaks directly to the difference in how I view and discuss Christianity opposed to how Brett consistently describes religion. It is pretty scholarly and for those who want to continue to caricaturize all Christians as nitwits you probably want to avoid it. It isn't dry or boring and manages to include the Godfather flicks (which Brett hates!) and the difference between Star Trek OS and TNG. I love Keller's perceptions and entertaining illustrations.

http://sermons2.redeemer.com/sermons/losing-my-religion-why-christians-should-drop-their-religion

here is a link to the mp3 directly:
http://sermons2.redeemer.com/sites/sermons2.redeemer.com/files/sermons/RPC-Losing_My_Religion_-_Why_Christians_Should_Drop_Their_Religion.mp3

If I could get Brett to listen to one mp3 this year this would be it.

Brett said...

Steve if you send it to me as a cd I'll attempt to listen to it. But I'm not going to waste my precious, precious bandwidth on it. I was incredibly underwhelmed by some of the things I've read online about him.

If he doesn't present any actual evidence though... I might wind up tossing the disk;)

Best,

Brett

Fatboy73 said...

Well I listened to the whole thing and he makes some good points but essentially all it is,is a bunch of back peddling and oh well the current cultural zeitgeist is religion is a bad thing so I'm jumping on the band wagon.this is what is what Marx,Freud and Nietzsche say about religion and you know what their right.All the arguments and philosophies damning religion are in fact becoming a religion and dogma unto themselves.Religion is a bad,bad thing,boo religion.
And in the end he falls back on the whole humans are flawed and need God/Jesus to save us,but without using religion to do so.

Steve,
Hmm what do I believe about society?I believe that an individual living in any society is forced to "live" within the bounds of what is considered acceptable by that particular society.
The only thing I "owe" my society is to do just that.Function within those construct so as to be able to "live my life"and be free to do so within that group.
Now what I do and what I think are of course sometimes two different things.EVERYONE!And I mean everyone puts on a facade or a public face and if you say you don't your lying and/or delusional.

Is the individual more important than the group.Depends on who you ask,every being on this planet no matter how altruistic they seem is a selfish being.Every person goes through life with their main goal being "their wants" "their needs" and most people along the way will do what they can to help the needs and wants of others(society),as long as it doesn't get in the way
too much of their own path.
So does the individual person matter more than the group? To that individual person they sure do,and when you get down to basics the only view,the only reality that matters to anyone is the one
that that they see.
Did this answer any of your questions?Not a clue but those are some of my thoughts,take them for what their worth.Which of course are only worth what you think they are because you're the one reading them :)

M.O.R said...

Well, one can say that we have multiple personalities, not just two. There is the person we are with our parents, the person we are with our partner, the person we are with our bros/ sisters, the person we are with our friends, the person we are with our boss etc. It's interesting, if one thinks about it.

I wish I could seperate the person onscreen from their work. For example, I think Tom Cruise is a massive jerk, and the only films I can enjoy him in are when he is playing a villain ie Collaterol and Interview with the Vampire. Travolta is another person I do not like, as is Giovanni Ribissi. Okay, I admit I cannot stand Scientologists, the reason being they stand in the way of people who need medical help and advice, and could very well send them into a dark place where they may never recover. They boast about all these abilities, yet there is no proof. And they consider anyone who uses medical science ie tablets to cure a sick person and save their life, weak and ignorant. They bully and harass those who oppose them, and create insidious and entirely untrue lies about people. They are responsible for a number of deaths, and one is told not to ask questions. Totally screwed up. Everyone should be encouraged to ask questions. Its how we learn.
As much as I dislike religion, there are very few which tell people to not ask questions, even when I was part of it, I was still encouraged to ask questions.

I feel that anything that blocks a person from advancing their knowledge is hampering their progress.

steve said...

Fatboy, I am impressed. Seriously dude you are on the ball. You point out a lot of truth.

Let me clarify a few points from my perspective.

Up until around the 18th Century most people defined themselves both as an individual, but to a much greater extent as part of a group. Individuals were weak and ineffective; groups brought safety and accomplishment. We just don’t get that here in 21st Century America. We are a nation of Marlboro-man-s; we are a collective of loners; the rugged individual. I’m going to be a self-made man. That is why we celebrate the individual who succeeds on their own terms and at the same time we can make an absolutely silly condemnation of Jared Lee Loughner and say he was just a bad individual and culture, his parents, and society did not play a part in his screwed up world view. Now Loughner was a screw up, but he had problems which our society allowed to fester and warp him. Dude had some sort of demonic altar in his back yard and his parents are saying he had a good home and there was nothing they could do. Seriously? I think you might want to talk to your son about the demonic altar he is worshipping at, that might be a warning sign. Everyone who knew him was afraid of him. Hmmm…might be a problem there.

So what was I getting at with all that talk of trees…Freedom ain’t free. In American society we can forget the only reason we get to enjoy freedom is because this Country came at the cost of lives and continues to operate through the blood, sweat, and tears of its citizens. If you understand the cost you have gratitude, if you don’t understand the cost you end up with indifference and a sense of entitlement. A poor kid who saves long and hard to buy a bike keeps it in nice shape and locked up in the garage, you give a spoiled brat a bike and he’ll leave it out in the yard to be stolen or destroyed by the elements-it has no value to him-it came cheaply.

What am I getting at?

Well for starters belonging to a group, religious or otherwise is not akin to the Stockholm syndrome. The Stockholm syndrome is a perversion of community relationships, not the other way around. Also in Christianity Jesus uses himself as the shield to protect us from death, pain, and destruction, in the Stockholm syndrome people are exploited and used to protect the captor. Jesus needs nothing from us, he has no need to exploit us. If you understood Christianity you would see rather than being held captive by bank robbers, it is more like Jesus robs his own bank, sets us free with the cash and then he hangs around to take the blame and go to jail and be sentenced.

Glad you listened to the Keller speech; he has plenty more if you are interested. I think you are kind of missing the point though; he doesn’t fall back on Jesus as if he was sliding back into a religious dogma. He is showing Christianity operates on a totally different value system than religion.

steve said...

Okay blogger ate the rest of my post.

and my word verification for the last post was "coffin" how spooky is that?

My final point was...

Yes we are all hypocrites. This is why the Stockholm syndrome does not make sense. Rather than an evil individual using force to exploit an innocent group of kidnapped people (as the bank robbers did) Christianity is an innocent God exploiting himself to forcibly free evil hypocritical people like you and me.

steve said...

http://fm.thevillagechurch.net/resource_files/audio/200808310900HWC21ASAAA_MattChandler_LukePt25-TheGreatGospel.mp3

The above is a link to a Matt Chandler sermon which explains wonderfully the difference between religion and the gospel of Christianity. Plus he is funny as all get out.

KaiserLeomon said...

Look unwittingly arguing, I do not feel right, keep doing, quotes the texts of the Bible, or certain, Priest, Pastor and such ... the Bible is a wonderful book yes, but anyone EVEN, A SERIAL KILLER, you can open it and give the words contained therein that the interpretation he wants and find comfort and solace provided the perfect justification to commit his next murder. Are there, Jim Jones , Adolf Hitler, Osama Bin Laden and the Holy Inquisition that will not let me lie ... It is useless to say "see that someone said about God." Anyone can pick up the Bible or the sacred scriptures of any people and you have skill and a good use of words to manipulate the thinking of an entire people in just one direction as if existence comes down to "God" and "Devil," " good immaculate "and" absolute evil, "have faith" or "not having faith," "be one of us" or "being one of them" but in practice the world is not so simple and based purely on Manichaeism course .. . There is only "white" and "black" there are also shades of gray, nuances and subtleties of what we think is "good" and what I think of as "evil" then quote one person's interpretation of the Bible is wrong and it sounds arrogant ...

steve said...

that is why there are rules of interpretation called Biblical Hermeneutics-it is the discipline used for studying all ancient manuscripts but kind of with much more strict rules for Bible interpretation.

You will always have kooks both inside and outside the church misusing the Bible for their own reasons.

Church history is full of quacks.

But when the rules of proper manuscript study are used it is pretty easy to see what the authors originally meant. All the scripture passages must be in harmony with one another.