Over on Pharyngula there is an excellent post on this whole Koran burning thing. By giving in to these ultra religious monsters we are given them power over us. I had thought about burning the Koran AND Bible if this guy did it, but then I'd have to waste time buying the damn things. I do have another idea, draw up the major religious figures and then burn the art. I wonder if they'd get more pissed off than normal... The problem? I'd have to waste my time drawing them, although Buddah would be fun:)
Go read the article. It's not real blaspheme, just common sense.
Best,
15 comments:
I think it is silly to burn the Koran. The only reason to do it is to piss of Muslims. Why would anyone be surprised that Muslims got pissed off? It isn’t like burning leaves, there is no legitimate reason to burn a Koran except to provoke a response. There are people who go out of their way to offend religious folks. I think the Muslim religion is bunk, but I’m not going to go out of my way to piss them off, I’d rather present the true God in an attractive manner. I imagine I fail sometimes, but I try to not just point a finger and say you are wrong, I first try to show what is right and what the truth is.
The guy burning the Koran got on all the major news shows, big whoop. This just destroys the inroads to reaching Muslims with Christianity. Now Christians once again are shown to be hateful bigoted insensitive religious nuts, now don’t you wan to join up? The whole thing makes me sad.
Steve
Steve, you missed the whole point of that post!
It isn't about pissing people off, our very existence as Americans does that, they burn our stuff but we can't burn theirs? Is a mass produced book REALLY that important? Sure it pained me when my dogs destroyed my 'bible' (PDotW) but I just bought a new (well used, you can't get them new anymore) one. Get over yourselves (religious fanatics in general) and you inflated sense of worth, it's a book, lots more where that came from. Now if it held the whole of human knowledge and it was the last copy, then I be pissed. I'd actually be pissed if it was the ONLY copy of the Koran and no more could be printed. But to get all riled up over really nothing...
You actually thought Christians had a chance at converting Muslims as a whole? Really? You must be crazy;)
Best,
Brett
And I think you missed my point. He has the right to burn the Koran. You have the right to burn the Bible. But why do it? There is no legitimate reason to do it. You are just trying to piss people off. If you make someone mad in the normal course of life, like eating a hamburger in front of a vegan, big deal-you didn't set out to tick them off, it just happened. It is mean spirited to specifically set out to tick some people group off. I think Darwin was wrong, but what good would it do to burn "The Origin of the Species"? (well maybe if I burn enough of them they will evolve fireproof characteristics) If you tick someone off in the normal course of the day, no big deal. It is specifically going up and poking a hornet's nest with a stick to illicit a response which seems jerkish to me. You aren't showing concern for the person who thinks differently than you.
You still think I might be crazy? Didn't you come to that conclusion long ago?
Oh, and I know several former Muslims. They were converted to Christianity just like anyone else, real Christians took time to reach out to them and show genuine care and concern for them with a solid presentation of the gospel.
Steve
What kind of, I won't say upset me, because it did not, but it did perturb me, was the manner in which this pastor dude went about announcing the burning of the Koran.
Many liberal Muslims would not see this as an insult. Its not the original book, its just a reproduction. Similar to the bible. If they were planning to burn the original Bible, centuries Old, as well as the original Quran, again, centuries old, then I would become upset over this, as these documents are like a photograph of history which cannot be replaced, much like ourselves. Same thing goes for The Origin of the Species, if this was the original, hand written notes by Darwin, then that would be the same thing. It's a piece of history, which we will never, ever replace.
If I was stranded on an Island, and needed fire, as a form of heat, and the only thing I could start the fire with was matches, and pages from either the Quran, or the Bible, well, I would have to use it to make heat. It would not be easy for me to do it, but I would have to.
What perturbed me about the book burning was, why, of all days, do it on a day which is painful to so many people? Why not the end of September, why encroach on the victim's families pain already?
Secondly, the Pastor in question seemed like he was making himself out to be a martyr.
In some ways I admire his guts, but in other ways, I wonder how he would feel if many of us formed our own group across the street, and burned bibles, The God Delusion, Stephen Hawking's origin of the universe, Origin of the species, Dianetics, The Torah, the Quran etc? They'd probably throw a hissy fit, ignoring the other books and focusing on the Bible.
I mean, really, with all the killing in the world, would God/ Allah really get THAT angry?
Steve,
You seem to think that we Atheists have always been pissy and confrontational. We haven't and in fact this is a new, I hesitate to us the word tactic. A response to the crap that kept happening while we sat by and smiled and waved at you. Sometimes you have to get in people face to get them to listen or even understand that others don't hold their beliefs.
I agree that the idiot in Florida (no surprise there!) was just being an ass and trying to piss people off, but sometimes you have to do such things off. Turing the other cheek sounds great in theory but never seems to work out in the real world. You can only take so much crap before you have to make a stand.
Go ahead and burn Origin, there are plenty more were that came from! While it's an interesting read the science has been outdated for years! The importance of the book is what it did for our understanding not it's physical presence. The same can be said for the Koran and Bible.
M.O.R.,
I agree most more liberal Muslims might not care. But they aren't the ones who you're trying to make a point to.
Why 9/11, that's obvious. TO show the crazy people we aren't afraid of them, and by choosing that day he thought he could get support from 'TRUE' patriots.
Simple.
Best,
Brett
One more thing!
So you converted a few Muslims, how many Christians did they get in return? It's not like so one leaves your religion as well. That's a drop in the bucket. Now if whole cities were bring converted you might have an argument, but that doesn't seem to be happening does it?
Best,
Brett
Hello,
I'm a French fan, I truly like your work. I think I saw your drawings for the 1st time in Anita Blake's comics. So, now I'm really disappointed that you do only the cover, because it's "JUST" a cover. We love your work, come back !
Hi Leslie,
I did try, but Ron Lim is under contract with them for the rest of Circus. So until that's done I can only do covers:(
Best,
Brett
Hey Brett,
I understand your interpretation of what the pastor meant, but I don't feel that was what he intended the Quran burning to mean.
Personally, from reading a number of articles, and listening to many bible thumping Americans (there are bible thumpers everywhere, but the American ones are the relevant subject of this topic) it felt far, far too much like the age old ignorant "Our God versus Their God". The idiots, in Christian FunaMENTAList America, and Muslim Extremist Middle East, seem to forget that they worship the same God, and ignore the basic tenets of the Abrahamic religions, there is one God, and thou shalt forsake all others. By saying that they worship a different God, aren't they undermining their own beliefs that there might be more than one?
In regards to showing the extremists that America, and the world is not afraid, well, one has to wonder how much of that fear was created by Dubya, AKA the last guy. I mean, who remembers the whole "Terror alert yellow, terror alert red, terror alert orange?" It never went below yellow, and when it hit orange, it was used to scare the hell outta people.
What's the real problem is that guys like Bush and Obama, did not finish the job in Afghanistan and Iraq. They cut the heads off of the Hydra, yet more more grew in their place.
The real way to stand up against extremist terrorists (who claim to have a religion, yet merely hide behind it) is to do what you have done, every sunday.
Hell, you could post the Mohammed pictures every sunday, in addition to other 'blasphemy' (Might I suggest mocking scientology, also :)). Hell, if you organised a book burning, of the Quran, Bible, Torah, Origin of the Species, God Delusion, Carl Sagan books, Dianetics, Stephen Hawkings works, and so on, I'd be right there with the matches (Just not on September 11th). Because you would have a different ideology to the Pastor. You would mean it.
If it sounds like I am being very anti-book burning on September 11th, it is because I feel nothing should compound the families grief. Its the same thing as Bush invading Iraq with the excuse of Sept 11th.
Make the day its own day. Have September 30th, for example, be "Sacred Book burning day". Hold it every year, and burn every single book one wishes, to show that no one rule should dictate how people live, whether it is Atheism, Agnosticism, Theism, Apatheism, Deism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, etc. We are all made up of different experiences which formed us in our life. Religion is a pointless aspect to our lives.
Show defiance, but don't use the 9/11 families as a means to push an agenda.
M.O.R.
Me thinks your reading to far into my comments! The day was chosen for 'support', the reason that particular guy was doing it was to be an ass. He's a hatemonger, nothing more. And while his reasons are pretty crappy the idea has some merit. He's not the first person to try this, but he was far less successful. He wasn't expecting the backlash, at least not from the US side.
If her REALLY ment it he'd have burned it and THEN posted the video. Idiot.
Bestest,
Brett
If you want to make with the funny, draw the major religious figures burning together, with their corresponding priests roasting marshmallows on the bonfire :P
That way you'll have art to post and you won't need to burn anything away:D
I can just picture it in my head- Jesus, Mohammed and Buddha burning, kicking and screaming, while a priest/or even the Pope/, an imam and a Buddhist priest roast their marshmallows with glee XD
Yeah, I read too much into it. I assumed you were another "Trouble-for-attention" people, which you most certainly are not. I apologise.
That's the problem with the written word, hard to detect sarcasm.
Yeah, the book burning thing would send out a message, to many individual groups, about one's right to free speech.
I kind of feel that an artist should do something like this. (Not specifically mentioning any name, and the last suggestion of your name was a hypothetical.)
A performance artist, for example.
Again, and I know I sound like a broken record, but Sept 11th ain't the day to do a performance.
We've all lost close ones, no matter our age, and imagine how we would feel if someone said they were going to potentially put soldiers lives at risk in order to get 'revenge' for our loved ones, and they were going to do it on the anniversary of losing our loved one? A minority would support it, most would be against it. Simply because we do not want to have an additional burden to bare. Any remaining postitive memories would be tainted forever by the actions of another.
Excellent idea Arch, now if I have the time...
M.O.R,
I was hoping the Draw Muhammid day would catch on, but the woman who created it is now in hiding because of Death Threats! In the US! I do think a day like that would be the thing to do at some point.
Best,
Brett
I was hoping for the same. Even if someone were to recreate their own version of the Super Holy team from South Park, except without the black bar covering Muhammad.
That is sad that someone actually has to go into hiding because of death threats, especially in the supposed "Land of the Free."
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