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Does Bill Maher carry any weight with folks? Doesn’t his smug arrogance turn most people off? He never actually has the cohunes to debate anyone who is his equal. He is so wimpy, but he acts like a big game safari hunter; a hunter who only goes to zoos to shoot animals. Of course his nutty support of all things PETA probably makes that not such a good analogy. Shooting fish in a barrel?-probably not much better. And when he is confronted by an intellectual equal on a news program, he always hides behind “I’m just a comedian, I’m just making jokes. I never meant to offend anyone.” He never enters into a debate with them. I think his friendship with Ann Coulter is the closest he comes to actually addressing a counter idea. What is he afraid of? Did anyone see his film Religulous? Wow, by showing he refused to talk to mainline orthodox believers and instead only visit the fringe and then self-servingly edit all discussions himself? I guess the gullible might like him but for actual free thinkers he really came off poorly.
Remember anyone who attacks the fringe or a non-representational portion, or the weak is not actually taking the debate seriously, they can only play with a stacked deck and rather than earn respect, they instead enjoy the meaningless back slaps of the like minded. They perform for the elation provided by having their egos stroked by their existing fans. Bill does provide a good example of how not to debate or not to argue a point, and for that I’m grateful.
I think when people say atheisms is a Religion they mean it has all the hallmarks of a religion. It has a creation story, a set of beliefs based off of faith, morals based of faith, priests, temples, and religious observations. Religion means you dogmatically and frequently have a set of beliefs and/or activities you observe; it doesn’t require the super natural or a deity. You can follow a sports team religiously. You can find your highest purpose in performing your career, you can elevate your spouse to a point you worship them.
Steve, I kind of agree with you there. Religiulous was so biased and unfunny that it left me irritated and annoyed. I wanted to enjoy it, I really did. But the guy got all the way to the Vatican, and never once asked the tough questions of any of the priests there. It was like talking about Physics and splitting the atom with the layman, and then asking Einstein about his golf swing.
Come on. Is it not so easy to get two educated sides of one argument. IS everyone trying to be the next Michael Moore?
As for the point Maher was making, I agree with alot of it. Also of note is how Romney never mentions his dad was an atheist. Obama never tried to hide his mother's Atheism/ Agnosticism.
What IS your problem? Atheism, aside that whole unbaptism thing was funny as hell. The Mickey Mouse hat!!!!!! Expecto Patronum form Harry Potter!!!
He is a comedian. And no, I don't always agree with him, his anti vaccine and woo loving, along with PETA are annoying, and I didn't know he made the leap to atheism, I thought he was an agnostic. So maybe that's changed some of his wooloving, I don't know.
"I think when people say atheisms is a Religion they mean it has all the hallmarks of a religion. It has a creation story, a set of beliefs based off of faith, morals based of faith, priests, temples, and religious observations. Religion means you dogmatically and frequently have a set of beliefs and/or activities you observe; it doesn’t require the super natural or a deity. You can follow a sports team religiously. You can find your highest purpose in performing your career, you can elevate your spouse to a point you worship them."
Ah, but a sports team is REAL. What you are describing is 2 types of religion, one for real things, one for supernatural or unreal if you will.
There are no temples or priests or religious observations. so your analogy is wrong. I go nowhere, talk to no one about it in any sort of private setting (unless you count this computer and I don't think these discussions can be considered a service;))
So what are my dogmatic beliefs and activities? I don't believe in evolution, no matter how hard to try to push that. It is a true, observable and testable occurrence, that even your Michael Behe agrees with to a point.. I don't go out of my way to do Atheistic things... whatever those are. So how is this even akin to a religion? It's not. You don't need to believe in evolution to be an Atheist, which is what I'm guessing your only real criteria for an atheist belief system is. That was the whole point of his argument that you completely ignored because you can't understand what it's like to not believe.
You need to stop getting so damn defensive whenever anyone says anything bad about your religion, even in jest you fly off the handle and attack. I would say now you know how it feels to be the 'other' people but since you can't place yourself in others shoes that's a moot point.
M.O.R.
I guess it had to be where you were sitting;) I thought Religioulous was funny and sad. And no it wasn't suposed to be unbiased. He was trying to make fun of religious people, it's a tactic. Make someone look stupid in the hopes they have some sort of epiphany. Doesn't work all that often but it can be funny.
And he did ask a Bishop if he actually believed all that stuff, and was told NO by the Bishop. He did talk to a Catholic preist about bible stories being myths.
He wasn't trying to do a hardball interview, he was trying to show the absurdity of it all. And he did.
Maybe I need to sit down and watch it again. I know there were alot of movies that I did not like on the first watch, but adored after the second and third viewing.
I may have to give Religulous another go, and with a different frame of mind. Seems like alot of mediums, be it film, or comics, needs a certain frame of mind to be appreciated. Even a mildly negative attitude will kill one's enjoyment of anything. As long as it applies only to an object meant to entertain (not trying to denounce anything, just looking at the world from a non-material aspect) and not one's own life. Then that is tragic, and one needs a councillor or something to find a love of life.
I'm not sure Maher's correct on atheism, but agnosticism fits better as not being a religion. Atheism is roughly the belief that there is no god or gods behind creation and the whys and hows of our existence. It make take a shorter "leap of faith" to reach that conclusion than to accept everything in the Bible as true, but it is still the framework of an understanding of how reality came to be.
It comes down to how you define "religion," of course. Maher wants to say that it requires a supernatural being. I don't think that is necessarily true. Does it require the belief in a soul outside of the body? Doubtful, although that seems to be a common component. There is sort of a blurry line if you want to separate a philosophy from a structured religion from a loose spirituality.
It is funny that people who claim atheism to be a religion nearly always mean that as an attack, not as a good thing. As though applying the term would throw a net over a beast they are trying to contain.
I don't think Maher makes his points nearly as well as he times his punchlines, though. He can be hilarious, as in this clip, but Jon Stewart pretty much left Maher in the dust.
He's totally into woo. He thinks the medical establishment is out to make us sick and make lots of money off us.
He loves PETA.
He also was more offended by the fact that Rick Perry had a hunting ranch than by its name ("Why are we still hunting?" he asked derisively.)
I think he joined all these animal rights causes because it was a way to pick up women.
If he didn't do woo, he'd be a pretty good voice for rationalism. He talks about a reality-based system of thought. I just don't get how the woo gets you there.
Jeez, I think I need to Google "Woo." Which makes me sad, because there is a Celtic rock band called Needfire that recorded a kick-ass instrumental called "Nine Minutes of Woo" and I'm not sure any other definition could measure up.
If that were actually the woo that Maher was into, he would have more "Cool" points than he could possibly burn off in one lifetime.
Yet, I cannot picture him having that many "Cool" points.
By the way, the sign-in system here is freakin' cruel. I do the damn captcha thing, but it also wants a Google account sign-in, then it brings me back here and says my captcha thing was invalid, do it again. Bloody freakin' hell. It takes less work to log in to my bank account.
8 comments:
Does Bill Maher carry any weight with folks? Doesn’t his smug arrogance turn most people off? He never actually has the cohunes to debate anyone who is his equal. He is so wimpy, but he acts like a big game safari hunter; a hunter who only goes to zoos to shoot animals. Of course his nutty support of all things PETA probably makes that not such a good analogy. Shooting fish in a barrel?-probably not much better. And when he is confronted by an intellectual equal on a news program, he always hides behind “I’m just a comedian, I’m just making jokes. I never meant to offend anyone.” He never enters into a debate with them. I think his friendship with Ann Coulter is the closest he comes to actually addressing a counter idea. What is he afraid of? Did anyone see his film Religulous? Wow, by showing he refused to talk to mainline orthodox believers and instead only visit the fringe and then self-servingly edit all discussions himself? I guess the gullible might like him but for actual free thinkers he really came off poorly.
Remember anyone who attacks the fringe or a non-representational portion, or the weak is not actually taking the debate seriously, they can only play with a stacked deck and rather than earn respect, they instead enjoy the meaningless back slaps of the like minded. They perform for the elation provided by having their egos stroked by their existing fans. Bill does provide a good example of how not to debate or not to argue a point, and for that I’m grateful.
I think when people say atheisms is a Religion they mean it has all the hallmarks of a religion. It has a creation story, a set of beliefs based off of faith, morals based of faith, priests, temples, and religious observations. Religion means you dogmatically and frequently have a set of beliefs and/or activities you observe; it doesn’t require the super natural or a deity. You can follow a sports team religiously. You can find your highest purpose in performing your career, you can elevate your spouse to a point you worship them.
Steve, I kind of agree with you there. Religiulous was so biased and unfunny that it left me irritated and annoyed. I wanted to enjoy it, I really did. But the guy got all the way to the Vatican, and never once asked the tough questions of any of the priests there.
It was like talking about Physics and splitting the atom with the layman, and then asking Einstein about his golf swing.
Come on. Is it not so easy to get two educated sides of one argument. IS everyone trying to be the next Michael Moore?
As for the point Maher was making, I agree with alot of it. Also of note is how Romney never mentions his dad was an atheist. Obama never tried to hide his mother's Atheism/ Agnosticism.
Steve,
What IS your problem? Atheism, aside that whole unbaptism thing was funny as hell. The Mickey Mouse hat!!!!!! Expecto Patronum form Harry Potter!!!
He is a comedian. And no, I don't always agree with him, his anti vaccine and woo loving, along with PETA are annoying, and I didn't know he made the leap to atheism, I thought he was an agnostic. So maybe that's changed some of his wooloving, I don't know.
"I think when people say atheisms is a Religion they mean it has all the hallmarks of a religion. It has a creation story, a set of beliefs based off of faith, morals based of faith, priests, temples, and religious observations. Religion means you dogmatically and frequently have a set of beliefs and/or activities you observe; it doesn’t require the super natural or a deity. You can follow a sports team religiously. You can find your highest purpose in performing your career, you can elevate your spouse to a point you worship them."
Ah, but a sports team is REAL. What you are describing is 2 types of religion, one for real things, one for supernatural or unreal if you will.
There are no temples or priests or religious observations. so your analogy is wrong. I go nowhere, talk to no one about it in any sort of private setting (unless you count this computer and I don't think these discussions can be considered a service;))
So what are my dogmatic beliefs and activities? I don't believe in evolution, no matter how hard to try to push that. It is a true, observable and testable occurrence, that even your Michael Behe agrees with to a point.. I don't go out of my way to do Atheistic things... whatever those are. So how is this even akin to a religion? It's not. You don't need to believe in evolution to be an Atheist, which is what I'm guessing your only real criteria for an atheist belief system is. That was the whole point of his argument that you completely ignored because you can't understand what it's like to not believe.
You need to stop getting so damn defensive whenever anyone says anything bad about your religion, even in jest you fly off the handle and attack. I would say now you know how it feels to be the 'other' people but since you can't place yourself in others shoes that's a moot point.
M.O.R.
I guess it had to be where you were sitting;) I thought Religioulous was funny and sad. And no it wasn't suposed to be unbiased. He was trying to make fun of religious people, it's a tactic. Make someone look stupid in the hopes they have some sort of epiphany. Doesn't work all that often but it can be funny.
And he did ask a Bishop if he actually believed all that stuff, and was told NO by the Bishop. He did talk to a Catholic preist about bible stories being myths.
He wasn't trying to do a hardball interview, he was trying to show the absurdity of it all. And he did.
Best,
Brett
Maybe I need to sit down and watch it again. I know there were alot of movies that I did not like on the first watch, but adored after the second and third viewing.
I may have to give Religulous another go, and with a different frame of mind. Seems like alot of mediums, be it film, or comics, needs a certain frame of mind to be appreciated. Even a mildly negative attitude will kill one's enjoyment of anything. As long as it applies only to an object meant to entertain (not trying to denounce anything, just looking at the world from a non-material aspect) and not one's own life. Then that is tragic, and one needs a councillor or something to find a love of life.
I'm not sure Maher's correct on atheism, but agnosticism fits better as not being a religion. Atheism is roughly the belief that there is no god or gods behind creation and the whys and hows of our existence. It make take a shorter "leap of faith" to reach that conclusion than to accept everything in the Bible as true, but it is still the framework of an understanding of how reality came to be.
It comes down to how you define "religion," of course. Maher wants to say that it requires a supernatural being. I don't think that is necessarily true. Does it require the belief in a soul outside of the body? Doubtful, although that seems to be a common component. There is sort of a blurry line if you want to separate a philosophy from a structured religion from a loose spirituality.
It is funny that people who claim atheism to be a religion nearly always mean that as an attack, not as a good thing. As though applying the term would throw a net over a beast they are trying to contain.
I don't think Maher makes his points nearly as well as he times his punchlines, though. He can be hilarious, as in this clip, but Jon Stewart pretty much left Maher in the dust.
He's totally into woo. He thinks the medical establishment is out to make us sick and make lots of money off us.
He loves PETA.
He also was more offended by the fact that Rick Perry had a hunting ranch than by its name ("Why are we still hunting?" he asked derisively.)
I think he joined all these animal rights causes because it was a way to pick up women.
If he didn't do woo, he'd be a pretty good voice for rationalism. He talks about a reality-based system of thought. I just don't get how the woo gets you there.
Jeez, I think I need to Google "Woo." Which makes me sad, because there is a Celtic rock band called Needfire that recorded a kick-ass instrumental called "Nine Minutes of Woo" and I'm not sure any other definition could measure up.
If that were actually the woo that Maher was into, he would have more "Cool" points than he could possibly burn off in one lifetime.
Yet, I cannot picture him having that many "Cool" points.
By the way, the sign-in system here is freakin' cruel. I do the damn captcha thing, but it also wants a Google account sign-in, then it brings me back here and says my captcha thing was invalid, do it again. Bloody freakin' hell. It takes less work to log in to my bank account.
Sorry. Venting.
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